Comments Regarding Speaking In Tongues.
This is a response to comments from Cathie Miller, whose handle is, Hsbelovedhandmdn
Phil replied, “first let me thank you for responding. You are the first person who speaks in this unwritten language to comment in words your thoughts. After reading these comments, for the most part I disagree with you except for, “Wow, and ” “and if I have read the book correctly Jesus is coming soon.” I don’t take any negative comments personally. What I am is a very careful researcher of the Bible, which is one of my strengths, which apparently you question, but that’s OK because you don’t know me.
Let’s start with a short story. I have always been a science fiction buff. Give me a good movie around creatures like the Predator, Alien, Frankenstein, a bag of popcorn and I am happy. Frankenstein has always been my favorite, especially when Abbot and Costello had a run in with this very large born again creature, very funny movie!
If the readers of this forum have ever seen a Frankenstein movie, they know he was quite large, made from various human limbs that had been spliced together, had a criminal brain, and was jumpstarted by an electrical circuit. Well, old Frankie was exceedingly strong, not very bright, had a brain inherited from a criminal, the previous owner of that particular organ. Frankie was not exactly a Rhodes scholar, so because of certain brutish tendencies, others did his thinking for him. The only words he ever uttered were, “Yes master,” and, “Ogg.”
Frankie had a new body with an old brain. As the story is told, doctors worked to install a more functional brain, compatible to the civilized society. But alas, Frankie died before receiving his new brain.
So what’s my point? Many who profess to be Christians say they are born again, new creatures in Christ. Yet many new Christians carry with this supposed new condition, the same old worldly brain. Does this formula work?
The Christian experience is based on emotions, personal desires and preferences, or some out of mind experience. New Christians receive or desire pastors and teachers who are chosen, because of appearance or certain mannerisms, comfortable surroundings, or sing-song music. For some Christian’s the choice of fellowship in a certain place may be because family and friends gather there. These choices are based on the old man’s desires and needs, and these so called born again people are continually driven by old tendencies and inclinations.
Christian thoughts and attitudes often remain worldly, with pride, boasting, stubbornness, confusion and strife dominating attitudes and position. These Christians may harden their hearts, become deaf and blind to the Scriptural truths, and trust in feelings and emotions rather than Scriptural absolutes. These things will not be received into Christ’s kingdom. So what to do? John gives us a clue,
John 5:39, “Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”
I assume John was referring to each and every book of the Bible when he makes reference to, “Searching the Scriptures.” He is not speaking about a once through, thank you; but a lifelong commitment to study. So what does it mean to search the Scriptures? The definition of the word search, “ereunao” from the Greek, means “To search into, to investigate, to explore.
“Search”is a transitive verb,meaning when the action expressed by a verb is exerted on an object, or terminates upon it, the act is considered as passing to the object, thus the verb is called transitive. The following verses give one the information needed to understand, and qualify the word fully.
1. John 5:39, is quoted above.
2. John 7:52, Nicodemus said to Jesus, “Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.”
3. Rom.8:27, “He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.”
4. Rev.2:23, Jesus said, “I am He which searcheth the reins (inner most thoughts of the mind) and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.”
5. 1 Cor.2:10, “The Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.”
6. 1 Pet. 1:11, “searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the suffering of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” .”
7. Sept. for “he search,” Gen. 44:12. 1 K. 20:6, “My servants — they shall search thine house.” 2 Sam.10:3, “search the city.”
Some Christians may NOT think it important to know the correct meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words used in the Bible. But God chose the Greek language to record the Good News of the Gospel. Every word applied is a clue needed to receive a full understanding of the whole.
Paul observes, 2 Tim.3:16-17, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” Notice the idea of, “the man of God may be perfect.” How, by the study of Scripture.
The English word “search,” can be applied in several ways. A few synonyms are seek, probe, examine, explore, sound, investigate and inquiry. In the Greek there are four (4) Greek words for search or searched, each having a slightly different meaning. The Greek breaks the word down, where English does not.
This is where many Christians err when they apply one meaning of the word “search” to every word search they come across. So why do Christians do this? They may feel it is not important, they may be negligent, or they may intentionally corrupt the word for whatever reason, it’s unknown.
So like the Frankenstein monster, many Christians allow others to think for them, dictate the meaning of words, phrases, and subjects. The response is, “Yes Master.” Some Christians claim to be born again, but retain the old brain.
Now I would like to respond to hsbelovedhandmdn. On my job, I let my Christian faith be known to all. I show my faith on the job, and in my personal life. I feel deeply about my personal responsibility to both mankind and God.
In the Scriptures I found a home. Here is a little side note.
I lost my mother to the Jehovah witnesses, my immediate family, sisters and brothers-in-law are all Jehovah Witnesses, whereas the rest of my family is Catholic. Although my family consider me the black sheep of the family, The Lord took me from a wild life of gambling, course friends, anti-Christian attitudes, cheating, friends who drank, did drugs, caroused, etc.
In my ignorance, the Lord protected me. When I received Him, I was in my late forties. I made one commitment to the Lord Jesus, to be faithful to every word written in the Biblical text. I asked only one thing from God, wisdom with understanding. What He gave me was the gift of discernment. I also consider my desire to research the Scriptures a gift. I spend roughly 30 hours a week in the word, and in word studies, still wishing I had more time.
When I first thought about becoming a Christian, I spent one year in seclusion studying the man, Jesus Christ. If I was going to worship Him, I wanted to know who He was, and what He represented. When I came to an understanding of who He was, I received it by faith. I took another year to study the Holy Spirit, my beginning of life as a Christian.
I knew nothing about computers, and web-sites, yet God has blessed my web-site. I am now researching a Greek dictionary that can be seen on the site. This is for the average lay-person, and for pastors to experience and get a full understanding of the Greek words used in the Bible. I have broken down each word, and have given support verses to each word. All the Greek is translated into English so the average person can understand. I pretty much work alone, after painting homes all day. My research has been quite an experience and the dictionary has opened my eyes. Many questions have been answered in the study of the Greek language. Everybody should do a word study. Hopefully I will complete it in two more years.
Again, I take nothing personal, have no opinions, and take no sides except that which the Scriptures reveal.
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “Wow. as I read this discussion it reminded me of the Jews at the time Jesus came. They argued about “laws”, specifics and “words”. Who was right and who was wrong.”
Phil replied, “Jesus went after the leaders, the Pharisees, Sadducees, Lawyers, etc. His comments were directed at them, these men had twisted, and added to God’s words, the results, the people were led astray.” They hardened their hearts to the God they claimed to worship. In this, they sinned.
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “Let me start by saying I have always heard people from a certain denomination go on and on about “snake handlers, and people rolling up and down the aisles.” I have NEVER seen that. I have been in a lot of different non-denominational churches and never once have I seen that. If you have, please send me a picture.”
Phil replied, “The Pentecostal churches in Tennessee usually lose 1 or 2 people each year to snake bites. A major network did a special on national T.V. a few years back which was very enlightening, the church used rattle snakes. In this, the snake handlers endeavor to prove they possess the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These people are attempting to imitate Paul’s encounter with a viper in Acts 28.
Turn on your local Christian broadcasting and watch the live show of people falling to the ground, acting as if they are in convulsions. The only time we read in Scriptures about people doing these things is when they become demon possessed.
Benny Hine is a good example. He was questioned by a team of reporters that followed him around for a year. He never responded to any questions, even though the reporters had dates, names, and places that proved him to be a false healer. This was shown several times on national TV. I have it on tape, and hisis actions and responses were those of a man who was clearly attempting to cover up. Benny Hine became an embarrassment to the Lord.
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “Getting back to my first statement, Jesus was popular because the people of His day had truly had it with the “arguing” over the Word. They needed to see the Love of God demonstrated. Jesus got to their level, He healed the sick, gave hope to the Lost and changed lives never once getting into a deep disection of the world.”
Phil replied, “Yes He did quite a few miracles, signs and wonders for the people. Yet He was so popular that when He died, not one person remained with Him. He was so popular they whipped Him twice, pulled his hair out by the roots, placed a crown of thrones on His head, and then crucified Him. Yes, the people saw the love he demonstrated, and responded with the following words as He hung on the cross.”
Matt.27:42-43, the people said to Him, “He (Jesus) saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He be the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him. He trusted in God (the Father;) let Him (the Father) deliver Him now, if He will have Him: for He said I am the Son of God.”
“What Jesus said to the religious leaders of that day, He most likely would repeat to the religious leaders of this day,”
Matt.23:3, “Whatsoever they (religious leaders) bid you (the people) observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. ver.5, “all their (religious leaders) works they do for to be seen of men: ver.7, “and greetings in the markets.
Ver.13, Jesus said, “woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Ver.15, “ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.”
“So hsbelovedhandmdn, are you saying Jesus never got into a deep dissection of the word?” I can write a book on His confrontations with the religious leaders of the day. Also John wrote about anti-christs and liars. He had one man in mind, that man was Cerinthus; a Gnostic heretic. John put some serious condemnation on him in 1 John.”
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “With all due respect to the man who started this topic, perhaps you should leave us Pentecostals alone and go and offer the lost something. Come sit and read my email for a day. I am an ordained womens’ minister who spends a great deal of my day reading email from women who are in pain. The kind of pain that only the UNCONDITIONAL Love of the Savior can minister too. You talk about Pentecostals being “greedy”. Last year my ministry received about 150.00 total, and yet our outgo was over 3500.00. ”
I advise you to get in the trenches with some of us. If it wwew not for the Supernatural holding protection of the Holy Spirit, we wouldn’t be able to withstand the attacks we take for walking into Satan’s territory.”
Phil replied, “I congratulate you on your humanitarian work, but I was not aware that you knew me. From your statements, I don’t see much of the love of which you speak. You have never been to my home, seen my work for the Lord, spoken with the people who know me, and most likely never have read my work concerning the Word. But that’s OK’ at least you received 150.00 more than I did last year.
I have probably been in more real trenches then you can ever imagine. The difference is, I don’t let my left hand know what my right hand is doing.”
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “If you could get every Pentecostal to quit talking in tongues then what would you have?”
Phil replied, “I will assume that is a question that requires an answer. So what would I expect? I would expect more pastors and teachers to read and teach the Word of God, in a language people can understand.”
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “A bunch of folks without love spewing judgment and working to do the same you do?”
Phil replied, “Apparently you don’t understand the difference between teaching and what you call, spewing judgment. I have doubts as to you ever having read my original comments. I responded to a question asked of me by a reader. Because someone may disagree with you, does not mean they are judging you. I will leave all judgment to the Lord.”
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “Quit trying to save the saved and work on the lost. With all due respect.”
Phil replied, “That’s a pretty humble opinion you have of yourself. Reminds me of the parable of the two men who went into the temple to pray.
Luke 18:10-11, “The one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican (tax collector.)”
Ver.14, the Lord responded, “this man (the Publican (the one who humblied himself) went down to his house justified rather than the other. For every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.” There’s a story behind the parable, we should consider it.”
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “Don’t bother giving me a lecture on women ministers. I don’t preach, I encourage, edify and uplift.”
Phil wrote, “From your comments I can tell how much you edify and uplift. Again I don’t preach or lecture; I paint houses, help people, and teach the Bible with word studies. You should try the word studies, they work rather well. Painting is rather hard work also.
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “My husband is an old testament scholar and just let me say that if I wanted to I could give you many scriptures to show you that your argument is wrong…but I have better things to do.
Phil wrote, “Ask your husband to find me one case in well over 100 where the word tongues in the O.T. means anything else other than a known language. He won’t, because He can’t, and because there is none. You can turn the house inside out, and you will not find what your looking for.
Because this debate concerns millions of us who feel that speaking in a language not written or known to men has divided the body of Christ, it is a very important issue. If not, what is? To be honest I doubt very much that anyone can produce a recognized Greek or Hebrew dictionary that will give your interpretation of the word tongues as being an unknown incoherent unwritten language.”
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “In case you haven’t noticed the world is going to hell in a handspikes.”
Phil wrote, “Yes, I have noticed!”
Hsbelovedhandmdn wrote, “would like to see as many folks as possible in heaven with the rest of us “tongue talkers”.
Phil wrote, “No comment!”
Let me conclude this debate. I personally don’t care if you wish to speak in this unknown language. But until one of you that teach this doctrine, you need to prove scripturally that the Greek or Hebrew language supports that teaching, I will continue to respond to those who ask what my thoughts are.
If it is not Scriptural, which I believe to be the case, like any other doctrine that is not Biblical, I will speak out against it. Not for my sake, but for the sake of those who may be considering jumping in before they look.
Lexicography is the science of words, that branch of learning which teaches and applies the proper signification and just application of words. Its a dictionary; a vocabulary, or book containing an alphabetical arrangement of the words in the Greek or Hebrew language, with the definition of each, or an explanation of its meaning.
We have linguist who are skilled in the languages. They are acknowledged as teaches of Languages. What they do is define words and the definition of a word, and give an explanation of the meaning and impact of words or terms, and to give the idea of what a word is understood to express.
We have translators: They interpret from one language into another language, words, phrases, etc. It is also to express the sense of one language in the words of another. The Hebrew Old Testament was translated into the Greek language more than two hundred years before Christ. Since then, both the Old and the New Testaments have been translated into most every language of the world. This work has been finished and completed by those whose love God. His Words are foremost in their minds and hearts as are mine.
Now in this so called modern day, here comes the show-boaters, the boasters, the braggarts, the (great) men of renown. The know it all’s! History or its experiences and lessons mean nothing. They feel everything needs to be changed. These don’t build, they tear down. The truth will always stand; God will make sure of that. Do as you may, try as you may, those who choose to exchange the truth for a lie will parish.
Thank’s, Phil LaSpino
This is a comment from, Debra Lohrere,
Author of Christian Prophecy and Investment Books
Debra wrote, I was in a Pentecostal church for over 15 years and spoke in the tongues seen in churches today. I listened to the teachings and accepted them as correct, until finally through a long stream of circumstances, the Holy Spirit led me to check out what I had been doing against the Word of God. To my horror I discovered that many of the things I had been taught and accepted, were non-biblical or had been distorted. I have now ceased speaking in tongues. Following is a short study I put together. A full one can be found at http://www.speaking-in-tongues.org/
Is Speaking in Tongues a Prayer Language?
Many Pentecostal churches teach that speaking in tongues is a heavenly language, the “tongues of angels”. Is this what the Bible shows? Where does this teaching originate from?
The Greek words used in the New Testament for tongues, when used in relation to speaking, simply meant “language”. The Greek “glossa” means “tongue, language,” and the verb “laleo” means “to speak”, producing the word “glossolalia”. This always refered to an earthly or known language.
There is only one verse in the Bible that mentions the tongues of angels. It’s,
1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV) “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal”.
Is Paul really saying that he speaks in the tongues of angels? This verse needs to be viewed in context and also in relation to the translation from the Greek. The word that has been translated to “though” when translated and used in over 95% of all other places in the New Testament, has been more correctly translated to “if”. Other Versions of the Bible do translate this correctly to “if I spoke in the tongues men and angels”.
Regardless of this mistranslation, merely reading the following verses clearly reveal that Paul is speaking rhetorically, as had he been speaking literally he would be boasting that he understood all mysteries and knew everything, which we know is not the case. These verses read 1 Corinthians 13:2-3 “And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing”. Paul is emphatically expressing his desire that the people should demonstrate love, generosity and charity, the important fruits of the spirit, because without these everything else becomes void. He is showing that love is the most important characteristic that God’s people need to express in all aspects of their lives and their ministries. He is not saying that he really can speak in the tongues of angels and has all knowledge.
Isn’t speaking in tongues used to edify ourselves?
It should be noted that all of the gifts of the spirit that God gave were related to building up the church. Evangelism, prophesying, teaching, preaching and speaking in tongues to reach the surrounding nations and rest of the world with the gospel message were all gifts to edify the church.
Paul writes 1 Corinthians 14:4 “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.”
Many preachers use this verse to prove that we should speak in tongues to edify ourselves and build up our faith. Is this what Paul is really saying? If we again look at this verse in context it can be seen that Paul is in fact rebuking the church at Corinth for their misuse of the gift of speaking in tongues, and telling them that it is of no use whatsoever if they speak in tongues and no one around them understands them. He says that prophesying is far more important, as that will build up the church.
1 Corinthians 14:5-7 “I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?”
He continues on to say that they may as well be speaking into the air. 1 Corinthians 14:9 “So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air”. These words are far removed from encouraging them to edify themselves? The whole purpose of his message was to encourage them to stop being self-centered and work on doing things that would build up the church.
The Bible makes it clear that speaking in tongues was for the purpose of witnessing to people in their own languages that they could understand and not speaking where no one knew the meaning of the words being spoken. 1 Corinthians 14:11-12 “Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church”.
Is Speaking in Tongues a gift from God?
Speaking in Tongues as we see it today in Christian churches is a relatively new phenomenon dating back to the early 1900’s.
Why is this? And in fact is what we are seeing today the same gift that empowered Jesus’ disciples at Pentecost?
The disciples were given the essential ability to speak in the languages of the surrounding nations, so that they could preach the gospel in the native tongue of all those they met. If what we see in churches today is the same gift, why was it absent from the church for over 1800 years?
Throughout the Bible it is seen that God gave His people gifts of the spirit to empower them to do what was required for a particular purpose at a particular time.
It is easy to see why God saw it necessary to give the gift of Speaking in Tongues to the early Church. How else could uneducated men have been able to spread the gospel? The question is then, for what reason would the gift of Speaking in Tongues have been reintroduced to the church after such a long absence. What possible purpose does it serve now that the church is established in almost every corner of the world?
We need to note also that when the genuine gift of tongues was given, for the purpose of evangelising, they understood what they were saying. 1 Corinthians 14:15-16 “What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when you shall bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at your giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what you sayest?”
Is what we are seeing in churches today the genuine gift, or has Satan somehow been able to infiltrate the Christian world and deceive them with a counterfeit of one of God’s gifts for his own purposes?
The Bible warns us that in the end times there will be a huge outpouring of false miracles, signs and wonders that would deceive much of the Christian world. Mark 13:22 “For false Christ’s and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect”.
Response from prays4u
Question: If Tongues have ceased, has the gift of knowledge as well?
For those who believe that “speaking in tongues” is a gift available today, some feel that they have found an error in our position that the gift of tongues were only for Believers of the first century. Based upon their view of 1 Corinthians 13:8, they argue that if “tongues” are no longer for today, then “knowledge” should be as well. Because we still have knowledge, we must agree that tongues remain as wellâ, really?
It is argued that the “coming” of “that which is perfect” will not be fulfilled until the event of the Lord’s return at the end of time. Tongues, therefore, will continue until then; only at that time will such be terminated.
Okayâ¦if this reasoning is valid, it must also be argued that since “knowledge” and “tongues” are to cease simultaneously, when the Lord returns, “knowledge” will “cease,” as well. If this were the case, then it implies that heaven will be a place absent of all knowledge. This is the undeniable consequence of such logic.
Further, if “tongues” simply means the ability to communicate verbally, since tongues likewise are to end at the time of the second coming, the conclusion would be, there will be no communication in heaven.
On the other hand, if one pursues a consistent interpretation of the Corinthian context, the problem eliminates itself. One must understand that the gift of “tongues” is the miraculous ability to speak in a foreign language, and similarly the “knowledge” of the same context is supernatural knowledge as in 1 Cor. 12:8b. The three “gifts” mentioned in 13:8-10, which are prophecy, tongues, and knowledge are but representative of the more complete list in 12:7-10. None of these supernatural gifts will abide after “that which is perfect” arrives.
Finally, the expression, “that which is perfect,” literally means “the complete thing” (neuter gender) -in contrast to “that which is in part”, or in other words incomplete. If it is the case, then, “the perfect” is a reference to Christ, and further, that the term, “coming,” is an allusion to his final return, one would be forced to conclude that Christ himself was “incomplete” or “partial” in the time periods before the event of his second coming. This presents a huge problem for the modern charismatic as well…
Phillip LaSpino www.seekfirstwisdom.com